All of us, including Vinnie & Weckl, go through a 'technical' stage in our drumming in which we push ourselves on a technical level such as learning hand/foot combos or polyrhythms. During recent years, I've read interviews where Vinnie says he's since settled down on being so technical and goes for what grooves better. In addtion, Weckl has gone for more of a flowing approach in the last five years.
What makes us stop pushing ourselves technically? is there a point in which enough is enough and it's time to focus on being more groove oriented? At what point do you think Vinnie & Weckl decided that they wanted to change the way they played to a more natural or groove oriented way of playing?
i guess music tells you exactly what to do.
But sometimes you're just not listening because you're focusing on other things,like technique for example.
Jeff Porcaro was never into technique because he hadn't practise that stuff,that's why he was totally into the groove thing.Technique,when you got plenty,can really get in the way of what you're supposed to play as a drummer.
just my 2 cents here. [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you hit it on the head here, Daniel. I think we all get to a point where we gain a greater perspective on the music we play. They both got to a place where they reached a certain level of accomplishment with their technique/chops and probably didn't feel the need to be so "experimental" with that side of their playing anymore. I would also add that it's not neccesarily about simply becoming more "groove-oriented" (though sounding that way is a natural by-product) but starting to think in terms of the larger picture and making a musical statement.Originally posted by D.Seipel:
is there a point in which enough is enough and it's time to focus on being more groove oriented?
I also know that for myself as a player, I was super-hungry to start doing a bunch of playing when I was in my early-mid '20s and I was overdoing it every chance I got, simply because I was so eager to prove to myself and to others that I could play and that I belonged. It was during this time that a few of my fellow musicians referred to me as a "bucking bronco"...Once I got that "out of the way"--after a few years of experience and having gained a certain level of acceptance among my musical peers, I really felt my playing settling down. I was starting to reach a new level of maturity as a musician.
So, after a while we all say, "Ask not what the music can do for you, but what you can do for the music!" [img]wink.gif[/img]
Good post, TH. [img]cool.gif[/img]
With myself, after a while there were coordination things that I had abandoned years before as being too difficult that began to naturally fall into place as I got older. These formed the basis of groove-oriented things that interested and challenged me more than the "how fast can I go?" thing. I'm hearing this more from both DW & VC. I hear some double kick groove things that Dave has been doing that fit like puzzle pieces and have very little to do with fast singles , ostinatos or hand-foot gimmicks. At one of his clinics he mentioned that this kind of thing was giving him a bigger woody these days than developing blazing speed for blazing speed's sake. There are a great deal more musical applications for these things that offer more interesting things for other musicians to play over (how many times must we remind ourselves that that is our #1 job; not what kind of wanking ability we have).
I don't look at this as "settling down" but rather exploring new territory. This comes from the maturation process. I personally, get more excited these days about getting into that zone with the other players where everything is flowing and things begin to "happen" as a result. The ego becomes collective rather than individual and is much more satisfying to the soul (and it keeps the band members from punching each other out in the parking lot as well, "You *%#@er, you stepped on my solo!").
Having seen Dave live a couple times in the last few years, I don't see him slowing down any. There's still that insanity happening, there just happens to be more of a communal thing going on as a result of maturity and having played together for a long time with his bandmates, whether it's the DWB or CCEB or whatever. The same with Vinny playing with Jing Chi or Karizma etc. Instead of driving 85 mph white-knuckled and weaving in and out of traffic pissing everyone off, they're doing 65 and driving in the flow of traffic and enjoying the ride with the other motorists.
I think it?s maturity.
When one is undeveloped and young, one often tends to concentrate on playing the instrument. Sometimes, in our zeal to excel on the instrument, we mutilate the music.
After we've mastered 75,000 ways to get fired in less than a minute, some of us realize that playing the instrument at a high level does not necessarily mean one plays the music at a similar degree. Usually by then, we've had enough hints given, or boards broken over our heads, that the less Homeresque among us take the hint and try to give the music what it needs, which often is not a lot of our instrument.
Another analogy: a skilled carpenter doesn?t always use all his tools on every job ? just the right ones. Dave and Vinnie have figured this out.
Well said!!
I remember recently telling a freind who hired a young, 20 something drummer who felt the need to strut his stuff on every tune; He's doing the same thing I did. Tries too hard to impress in the wrong way. Only after he loses quite a few gigs will he realize that maybe there's something missing in his playing. That was my story. I figured maybe there's a reason this Jeff Porcaro guy was working so much (and John Robinson, Jim Keltner, Steve Gadd etc...). I discovered the beauty in 2&4.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Fuse! (Sorry, you'll always be "Fuse" to me... [img]wink.gif[/img] )Originally posted by got_a_matchgrip?:
Good post, TH. [img]cool.gif[/img]
Another analogy: a skilled carpenter doesn?t always use all his tools on every job ? just the right ones. Dave and Vinnie have figured this out.
Yeah, Riddim--perfectly put! You just got a 5-star rating from me for that.... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
-Tom
hey guys talking about Dave,
Im going to see him on thursday with the Elektric band in hong Kong and then he's coming back on the 26th for a clinic so i think i get to meet him after, if i do i will certainly tell him to check out HOD and this board and hopefully we can add him to our monster list of members!
This is like one of my theories.
In my case, and other drummers that I've seen/talked with.
When some drummers are younger, they have the ability to play tons of things. Fast and loud, etc. Their mental capacity isn't on the same level as their hands. i.e. they might not understand the hows and whys of what they're playing.
Once a certain level of maturity/exposure/education in music is reached, the head starts to "catch" the hands. Eventually, the head will surpass the hands. And now that I'm older, I have more understanding and ideas, but my hands aren't capable of "grasping" everything.
Dennis Chambers said, in a clinic one time, that he was a "better" drummer when he was younger b/c he was concentrating on things like not hitting rims and being ultra precise. But then he said priorities change.
I don't think these things applied to Vinnie and Weckl, but they're somehow related.
Thanks for listening.
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